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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Hybrid Tax&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: Ginncrotz</title>
		<link>http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/2009/10/the-hybrid-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginncrotz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/?p=178#comment-51</guid>
		<description>&quot;if a raid leader needs a melee dps and there’s a rogue or a feral druid available, he’s going to lean towards bringing the Druid for the battle rez. &quot;

So we can either adjust DPS so the druid falls below the rogue, or give the rogue something as good as a battle rez that makes RAIDs want them.    It use to be the ability to sap things and unlock chests, but now not so much.

I have a warlock (pure DPS) and a pally (one pure DPS spec, one pure Heal spec, I don&#039;t tank with him, I&#039;m just plain bad at it).   So I understand the drawbacks of being a pure DPS class.   However I have never EVER been asked to switch from heals to DPS on RAIDs (well once on Lotheb, but I pointed out I could heal the tank and 2~3 others in my 3 second tick and was asked to stay heals).   So the &quot;advantage&quot; is more &quot;in theory&quot;...kind of.   I have saved heroics from wipes by hopping back from DPSing and doing some healing in the middle of &quot;pull gone bad&quot;.

However that isn&#039;t so much &quot;pally has a DPS _and_ a healing build&quot; as &quot;pally DPS builds can still throw out far better healing then a bandage&quot;.

So I view it as &quot;role swapping has a modest utility value, highly dependent on the player and what their other gear and trees are!&quot;...but other things have BIG utility.   Sometimes utility that scales up as you add more of that class, sometimes it doesn&#039;t.    One warlock can bring up a summoning stone, sometimes very useful.   Two warlocks can bring up two stones, never more useful then the one stone (they can soul stone 2 players though).   Two pallys can give 2 pally buffs, and two auras.   More then 3 is seldom helpful, and more then 4 almost never is.

Should we balance different amounts of utility provided by different classes with different amounts of DPS?   Or should we balance the utility?

Should the mages get a 300DPS buff, or should they get a battle rez?

Should the warlocks get a 300DPS buff, or should they get a tanking tree?

(as a warlock, I would rather get the buff because I HATE tanking...but if it were a healing tree, as bizarre as it would be for a &#039;lock...I would take it!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;if a raid leader needs a melee dps and there’s a rogue or a feral druid available, he’s going to lean towards bringing the Druid for the battle rez. &#8221;</p>
<p>So we can either adjust DPS so the druid falls below the rogue, or give the rogue something as good as a battle rez that makes RAIDs want them.    It use to be the ability to sap things and unlock chests, but now not so much.</p>
<p>I have a warlock (pure DPS) and a pally (one pure DPS spec, one pure Heal spec, I don&#8217;t tank with him, I&#8217;m just plain bad at it).   So I understand the drawbacks of being a pure DPS class.   However I have never EVER been asked to switch from heals to DPS on RAIDs (well once on Lotheb, but I pointed out I could heal the tank and 2~3 others in my 3 second tick and was asked to stay heals).   So the &#8220;advantage&#8221; is more &#8220;in theory&#8221;&#8230;kind of.   I have saved heroics from wipes by hopping back from DPSing and doing some healing in the middle of &#8220;pull gone bad&#8221;.</p>
<p>However that isn&#8217;t so much &#8220;pally has a DPS _and_ a healing build&#8221; as &#8220;pally DPS builds can still throw out far better healing then a bandage&#8221;.</p>
<p>So I view it as &#8220;role swapping has a modest utility value, highly dependent on the player and what their other gear and trees are!&#8221;&#8230;but other things have BIG utility.   Sometimes utility that scales up as you add more of that class, sometimes it doesn&#8217;t.    One warlock can bring up a summoning stone, sometimes very useful.   Two warlocks can bring up two stones, never more useful then the one stone (they can soul stone 2 players though).   Two pallys can give 2 pally buffs, and two auras.   More then 3 is seldom helpful, and more then 4 almost never is.</p>
<p>Should we balance different amounts of utility provided by different classes with different amounts of DPS?   Or should we balance the utility?</p>
<p>Should the mages get a 300DPS buff, or should they get a battle rez?</p>
<p>Should the warlocks get a 300DPS buff, or should they get a tanking tree?</p>
<p>(as a warlock, I would rather get the buff because I HATE tanking&#8230;but if it were a healing tree, as bizarre as it would be for a &#8216;lock&#8230;I would take it!)</p>
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		<title>By: We All WoW.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Daily Quest: Automatic Points</title>
		<link>http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/2009/10/the-hybrid-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>We All WoW.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Daily Quest: Automatic Points</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/?p=178#comment-47</guid>
		<description>[...] Diabolical Minds takes a look at the hybrid tax. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Diabolical Minds takes a look at the hybrid tax. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MarkB</title>
		<link>http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/2009/10/the-hybrid-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/?p=178#comment-46</guid>
		<description>&quot;Strive to do the best possible and the decision will come down to which person is desired to be present, not which class that person plays.&quot;
I suppose this is still true if you intend to farm heroics or old content such as Naxx. For current progression raiding, your statement doesn&#039;t hold true since the hybrids (esp. Druids + Paladins) bring a lot more versatility to a raid group. You can bring a hybrid to a raid and have them be competitive in any role that they are asked to fill. You can&#039;t ask a Warlock to heal, or a Hunter to tank, etc. Once you fill certain spots based on buffs (Mage Intellect+food, Warlock Healthstone, etc) there is little incentive to bring any more...if a raid leader needs a melee dps and there&#039;s a rogue or a feral druid available, he&#039;s going to lean towards bringing the Druid for the battle rez. The reason for the hybrid tax is to provide some kind of incentive for bringing pures so they don&#039;t gradually disappear from the raid scene. This has nothing to do with the person behind the keyboard, and everything to do with balancing classes to make them equally viable in various situations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Strive to do the best possible and the decision will come down to which person is desired to be present, not which class that person plays.&#8221;<br />
I suppose this is still true if you intend to farm heroics or old content such as Naxx. For current progression raiding, your statement doesn&#8217;t hold true since the hybrids (esp. Druids + Paladins) bring a lot more versatility to a raid group. You can bring a hybrid to a raid and have them be competitive in any role that they are asked to fill. You can&#8217;t ask a Warlock to heal, or a Hunter to tank, etc. Once you fill certain spots based on buffs (Mage Intellect+food, Warlock Healthstone, etc) there is little incentive to bring any more&#8230;if a raid leader needs a melee dps and there&#8217;s a rogue or a feral druid available, he&#8217;s going to lean towards bringing the Druid for the battle rez. The reason for the hybrid tax is to provide some kind of incentive for bringing pures so they don&#8217;t gradually disappear from the raid scene. This has nothing to do with the person behind the keyboard, and everything to do with balancing classes to make them equally viable in various situations.</p>
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		<title>By: WOWCheats.org &#187; The Daily Quest: Automatic Points</title>
		<link>http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/2009/10/the-hybrid-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>WOWCheats.org &#187; The Daily Quest: Automatic Points</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 03:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/?p=178#comment-45</guid>
		<description>[...] Diabolical Minds takes a look at the hybrid tax. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Diabolical Minds takes a look at the hybrid tax. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Typhoonandrew</title>
		<link>http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/2009/10/the-hybrid-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Typhoonandrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/?p=178#comment-44</guid>
		<description>The &quot;pure&quot; classes bring more to the raid than dps, each of them contributes to the raid. Or should be contributing to the raid. eg. Hunters (trap, kite, md), Rogues (stun, tricks, interupts, poisons), Mages (sheep, buffs, food), and Warlocks (buffs, sould and health stones, summons). And so on.

Should they be slightly better dps? Yes, but only by a touch. And that touch should be so slight that its really not relevant except in theory crafting spreadsheets; not in game. They are as important to good group composition that every other class.

As an aside consider that somebody might happen to play a &quot;hybrid&quot; class, but not actually ever do an alternate role in the raid. I know of Warriors with two Tank specs, and Druids who are both Boomkin and Cat. Their role is solid and valuable.
.-= Typhoonandrew´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://typhoonandrew.wordpress.com/2009/10/23/can-we-try-for-3-hours-of-raiding/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Can we try for 3 hours of raiding?&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;pure&#8221; classes bring more to the raid than dps, each of them contributes to the raid. Or should be contributing to the raid. eg. Hunters (trap, kite, md), Rogues (stun, tricks, interupts, poisons), Mages (sheep, buffs, food), and Warlocks (buffs, sould and health stones, summons). And so on.</p>
<p>Should they be slightly better dps? Yes, but only by a touch. And that touch should be so slight that its really not relevant except in theory crafting spreadsheets; not in game. They are as important to good group composition that every other class.</p>
<p>As an aside consider that somebody might happen to play a &#8220;hybrid&#8221; class, but not actually ever do an alternate role in the raid. I know of Warriors with two Tank specs, and Druids who are both Boomkin and Cat. Their role is solid and valuable.<br />
<span class="cluv"> Typhoonandrew´s last blog ..<a href="http://typhoonandrew.wordpress.com/2009/10/23/can-we-try-for-3-hours-of-raiding/" rel="nofollow">Can we try for 3 hours of raiding?</a> </span></p>
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		<title>By: MarkA</title>
		<link>http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/2009/10/the-hybrid-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/?p=178#comment-42</guid>
		<description>I think of it more along the lines of helping so-called &quot;pure&quot; DPS classes justify their raid spot. As it is, when I raid in 10 mans our leader will have people switch between DPS and healing or tanking and healing based on the fight. (or even tanking and DPS). 

My &#039;main&#039; is a &#039;pure&#039; DPS class and doesn&#039;t have that option, so I feel like I need to bring something extra to the table other than I don&#039;t wear the same kind of gear or use the same weapon as the rest of them. 

Otherwise the raid group would be all paladins, druids, and priests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think of it more along the lines of helping so-called &#8220;pure&#8221; DPS classes justify their raid spot. As it is, when I raid in 10 mans our leader will have people switch between DPS and healing or tanking and healing based on the fight. (or even tanking and DPS). </p>
<p>My &#8216;main&#8217; is a &#8216;pure&#8217; DPS class and doesn&#8217;t have that option, so I feel like I need to bring something extra to the table other than I don&#8217;t wear the same kind of gear or use the same weapon as the rest of them. </p>
<p>Otherwise the raid group would be all paladins, druids, and priests.</p>
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		<title>By: The Daily Quest: Automatic Points &#124; World of Warcraft</title>
		<link>http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/2009/10/the-hybrid-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>The Daily Quest: Automatic Points &#124; World of Warcraft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/?p=178#comment-41</guid>
		<description>[...] Diabolical Minds takes a look at the hybrid tax. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Diabolical Minds takes a look at the hybrid tax. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Expressive Emotion &#187; The Daily Quest: Automatic Points</title>
		<link>http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/2009/10/the-hybrid-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Expressive Emotion &#187; The Daily Quest: Automatic Points</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.diabolicalminds.com/weblog/?p=178#comment-40</guid>
		<description>[...] Diabolical Minds takes a look at the hybrid tax. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Diabolical Minds takes a look at the hybrid tax. [...]</p>
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